Welcome to Charting with Doctor McNeil.

Doctor. Greetings everyone. This is Doctor Patsy McNeil. We're going to start off here talking about women in medicine.

That's the topic of our podcast today. According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, women account for more than one third of active physicians and expanding their presence to become a majority or significant share of active physicians in certain specialties such as OB and pediatrics and gynecology and dermatology and psychiatry, pathology as well. But things are changing in different ways we need to pay attention to as far as being women in medicine. For the first time in twenty nineteen, women made up about fifty percent of medical students, which is a really big accomplishment considering how, little it was back when I was in even in training.

But unfortunately, one study from JAMA reported that within six years of completing training, twenty two point six percent of women physicians were not working full time as compared to three point six percent of male physicians. So in other words, fifty percent of the medical school classes, but then you get out, you start working as an attending and, you know, faculty and you're decreasing as far as the number of females who women who adhere to being full time physicians. And the curious question of course is, is why, why is that? So we have an expanding presence of women in medicine in one way, but then shrinking in another.

And so these are these and other things are of interest in speaking today to our participants in the podcast. I'm gonna have each of them introduce themselves to you. First, Cynthia Plate.

Thanks for having us here. I'm Doctor Cynthia Plate. I'm a breast cancer surgeon. I started out as a general surgeon and really have been with Adventist HealthCare for twenty one years.

And, but now I work for Maryland Oncology Hematology, but still working at Adventist.

All right. We also have Doctor Senda Beltaifa.

Thank you for having us. I'm Doctor Senda Beltaifa. I'm a pathologist.

I, lived and studied in three countries, traveled with my husband because of his job. I had three children along the way and speak three languages. And I'm certified in three countries where I lived, learned and practiced.

Goodness.

I always learn more and more about you, Senda , every time I meet you.

Doctor Judy Gurdian.

I'm Judy Gurdian. I'm an OBGYN. I've been at Shady Grove since nineteen eighty seven. Served in the military before that as, as up to rank of major.

Had three children, did a lot of moving and a prior career as an English teacher.

The English teacher. Yes, indeed. That always tends to come up when I'm writing something and she's like, that is not the way to write that sentence. So good times had by all though.

Let's launch into some questions. Now, all of us of course are women and have been in medicine for, quite some time. Everybody here has been in at least a decade. Tell me about some changes or challenges that you have faced as a woman in medicine.

That's gonna vary a bit. I know generation I'm gonna start with Judy because I bet that she has the longest track record here in medicine and things were quite different. Tell us, first of all, when did you graduate from medical school? Then tell us about the evolution.

I graduated medical school in nineteen seventy nine, and, I was one of a very small handful of women in my class. I had an air force scholarship to pay for my education because I didn't have the money.

And when I applied to all three branches of the military, the army told me that they had a lot of highly qualified young men applying and did not see themselves giving the position to a woman who would just have babies and quit. Then when I got out and opened my practice, we went to six banks before we finally found somebody willing to finance our practice and our husbands had to sign our loans.

So the prejudice in those days was was very much in your face. You knew it was coming and it was just what you dealt with if you wanted to become a doctor.

That is amazing. First of all, for them to tell you point blank, you're just gonna have some babies. Why are you even here essentially is just kind of dumbfounding. I can't even imagine, the, that knowing you, I bet there was, there's quite the strong presence of, of return commentary to that statement.

The best was when they asked me what I would do if my husband moved and I looked at him and I said, I'd pack his bags.

Well, at least you would do that.

At least I would do that.

At least you would do that. I'm gonna go on to Senda Beltaifa. Doctor Beltaifa, tell us a little bit about, when did you graduate from medical school to give us some context and then what has changed?

Yes. I graduated in nineteen ninety four. So I've been a doctor for over thirty years now. And, as I mentioned before, I had to travel around the world with my husband because of his job in an international organization and have children along the way. So every country I went to, I had to study and recertify to get the license to practice medicine in that country. And one of the challenges I face, like many women, is the system structures that do not support women around their family and maternal roles. So every time you have to kind of restart.

And that was quite challenging. And the system structure around flexibility, maternity leaves, and the role of women in their family and maternal roles does not take into account women coming into medicine. So the system basically is not built around them and for that purpose. So women find themselves struggling and trying to make tough decisions between their family and their career, especially if they don't have support.

That's absolutely true. I mean, there's this question here, the statistic about how twenty two point six percent of women are not staying full time, but they're more than full time because you do the job of being a physician all day and you come home to that second shift. And so no matter how resourced you are, how sophisticated your husband's, your partner's help may be, you're finishing work. Especially when the children are very little, often women are the one who are doing a lot of that heavy lifting of childcare and at least directing some of the the household management and so forth.

So the funny thing is that to refer to women as being part time to me is always little. I don't know a single woman ever who's been part time doing anything. Everybody's doing a lot all the time. What's changed for you, doctor Plate?

Well, I graduated medical school in nineteen ninety nine. And for me, going into medicine or choosing to go into medicine wasn't there were no barriers for me. My family was incredibly supportive, although there were no physicians in our family, but they, you know, they're always hardworking folks. And so they, they appreciated that.

For me, it was that I wanted to be a surgeon. And I had people tell me, well, there's no way you can be a mother and a wife and a surgeon. That's just never going to happen. And so, and unfortunately, at some point I realized I had decided to go into medicine when I was in high school.

And I kept hearing that. And I and looking back, I realized when I started medical school, I didn't have the goal of being a surgeon anymore. I was thinking family medicine, emergency medicine, and thinking back, especially when we're going to this podcast, I don't remember when that changed. Because in high school, as a matter of fact, if you look at my senior write up in my, in our yearbook, it said to become a successful surgeon.

When I went into medical school, it had been kind of drilled into me. You can't do all those things. So I was going to go into internal medicine or family practice or emergency medicine. And then I did my surgical clinical rotation.

And I said, Oh no, I'm going to be a surgeon.

And that's kind of sad that I don't remember when that was kind of twisted for me because in high school I was going to be a surgeon. That was it. You know, I was very lucky in my career. You know, half of our residents at Howard University Hospital or half of our surgical residents were women.

Wow. And so it was, you know, great to see that. But I still got, you know, I remember one case I was doing with a surgeon and they had another physician's assistant in there and they had a conversation without me participating about, You know, the surgeon asked me what I wanted to do. I said general surgery.

He said, well, no man is gonna accept you going to do an appendicitis at midnight. So you're not gonna get married? And the PA would answer, of course, she's gonna get married. And then, you know, I'm the dutiful, very was very military like at the time.

So you don't really answer. And the PA and the surgeon were both men talking and the PA and the surgeon said, don't you want kids? The PA said, of course she wants kids. And they had this discussion about how I wouldn't be doing anything. I was just silent.

About you without you. Right. Me participating. Yeah. It's so funny. All of us have, I'm sure, some story, about being overlooked or being, assumed as far as what you will be without your consent, which is a very interesting thing.

There are studies about children, and little boys and little girls have equal confidence and have equal ambition and equal wanting to conquer whatever until about twelve when society begins to tell women otherwise. And that still is the case now. It's not something that was in the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties. It still is the case.

And it's something that you really kind of have to, you know, be careful about in in in battle against. Does anybody else have a specific story about, you know, being in a situation as a woman and you're like, well, this is going to be a little challenging to navigate?

It wasn't a challenge, but I had a very, very high risk obstetrical patient and I had managed her for days, did a C section, she almost died, saved her life. And at the end of this, she looks at me and she says, but when am I going to see a doctor?

Yeah. That's that's always insane. In the emergency department, when I was practicing, once in a blue moon, it didn't happen to me very often, not as often as it happened to some other of my, women colleagues. I would come in the room and I'm African American, as well as being female. And the patient occasionally would say, you know, you're the doctor, you're the doctor. And I would always respond, were you expecting somebody taller?

Because that's, this is what you get. So let's roll. But it is challenging sometimes to have those situations come through, but navigating them with resilience. Everything I've heard about all of you suggests that there is a core strength of steel resilience to bounce back and keep going, which is, amazing. Doctor Beltaifa, when you were going from country to country to country, which countries were there and were there different gender expectations at each of those countries?

Yes. Well, I grew up in Tunisia, North Africa, and then I moved to the Middle East and the United Arab Emirates, and then I came to the United States.

Easy countries then, as far as gender roles. Very much so. Yeah.

But I think one common thing that unites all of us, which goes without saying, did we go into this field in the first place is our desire to understand how things work and our common sense of service. I personally have been, in my family and with my friends, a person to go to, to help solve problems. People come to share things with me and I kind of try to help them and comfort them and help them solve their issues. And that sense of service is inherent to my personality and that's what attracts me to medicine. I think medicine was a natural path for me. Being a physician just formalized that role of being there for others and serving.

I think that's common amongst not only female physicians, but male physicians. One thing that I've found is there's also, I mean, are studies about how women as physicians communicate better, have better outcomes with their patients. It's very known that, I'm not gonna say we're better, but there are studies that kind of back up how we approach.

The typical thing sometimes to navigate if you're in a majority male presence or specialty is to think through, there's always these assumptions built in that the woman's going to be more nurturing. And so, you know, you're going to help this patient and pat him on the bag, not me. And it's like, well, we all can have these conversations. We need to be vulnerable enough across both genders to be able to lean into some of that nurturing aspect. Going back one more time, then we're gonna go forward a little bit. I was trying to think through before this podcast, what specialties did I, as far as representation, I never ever see a woman do when I was in training? I graduated from medical school in ninety six.

It wasn't until actually recently that I ever saw a female neurosurgeon. I'd never met one until the last five years or so, but that's beginning to be a barrier that's broken. I had not met a cardiac surgeon who was female until the last five to ten years or so, really ten years, maybe a little bit longer than that. What are the specialties do you think of that still take you like, oh, a little off guard when you see a woman walk in the room as that specialty?

It's something you have to kind of your own biases start to click when that happens.

Urology as opposed to urogynecology.

Ah, that's that's that's definitely the case. Definite still Definitely. Yes. Always surprising and extreme.

I had a resident in on my urology rotation that wouldn't let me go in the room. Wouldn't let you go in the room? Because he didn't want to embarrass the men. Well, well.

And how many gynecologists were men at that time? Yes. Almost all of them. Exactly. That's that's that's very, very interesting. Anybody else have any specialties? Always like, oh, it's surprising to see you here.

No, I would echo what you said. I mean, definitely neurosurgery. I actually have only met one in all these years, one female neurosurgeon. And I don't know that I know any female urologists.

I know of one. Know a couple.

Yeah. I know of one. How about you, Senda? Any ones that come to mind other than what we've mentioned?

I would echo the urology was the biggest surprise. Yeah.

Yeah. When you started in pathology, was it majority men? Cause I know it's here the statistics say that it's now a lot more women friendly, I suppose, as a specialty.

When I started, I think it was kind of equal.

But the challenge I think for women is not to just get in, is to stay and grow the role. That's what I find is the biggest I mean, the structure is not built to support women and there's certainly, leadership and a mentorship gap in this field and women are not supported throughout their career, especially throughout their mid career when they're expected to have other family roles. And that's where I think the major challenge is.

I think that's true. We're gonna segue and talk into sponsorship, mentorship, representation in general. I have been fortunate enough to speak on the issue of women in medicine, frequently. One thing I always say, because women have a tendency I find to feel like they have to do it all.

You know? I have to go to work. I have to come home. I gotta, you know, take care of the kids.

I gotta clean my own toilet. I gotta wash the dishes. I'm like, if you think about the fact that in an hour or two, how you work and you're being compensated fairly is the hope, although it's not necessarily always the case, You you can get your whole house clean sometimes for an hour or two of work that you're doing. So why would you spend four hours or six hours or longer doing that work?

And so that's one of the things. Doctor Beltaifa walked talked about not having that support system. Build your own support system.

Build it. Build it. It sometimes with that tax comes, there's the pay, but build it. Let's talk about sponsorship and mentorship as well.

So how important do you all think sponsorship and mentorship is? Sponsorship being that person who's gonna speak for you when you're not in the room and making sure that you are kind of given opportunities and pointing them out for you. Mentorship is kinda helping you grow your career in the directions that you wanted to grow, you know, giving you that representation, giving you that education a bit on things you should look out for. How important do you all think that is?

That's incredibly important. And I think honestly, as any gender giving you that, because there were not a lot of women in, there's still actually at my hospital are not a lot of women in surgeon. So my mentor was a male. I was incredibly fortunate that I was very well supported in my hospital.

Again, I've been at, well, it was Washington Medicine Hospital, now White Oak Medical Center, since I finished my residency. And so I really flew under a lucky star, I think, because although there were there was not a lot of female representation, they were they very well supported me. My mentor who hired me, you know, helped me with difficult surgical cases. And then he also led me on a leadership path.

So to become the first female chief of surgery, to become the first female chief of staff.

And I was very well supported by, again, it wasn't just not a lot of women in surgery, it's not a lot of women in medicine, not the majority. And so I was very fortunate that I was incredibly supported in that way. And, but at the same time, at my mentors from residency. So sometimes that you you can't go to your current institution, but you look back.

And, you know, my friends have become program directors or my co residents have become program residency program directors, student clerkship directors, chiefs of staff. Patricia Turner is a good friend of mine. She's CEO of the American College of Surgeons. So sometimes you you can't necessarily look in your institution, but you can look around to where you've been before and also have that as mentorship and guidance too.

That's a great point. I do think that it's important to point out though that advocacy can come in any gender though. And there are times when it's actually to your benefit to have a male point of view as far as what you want to do next. And so that's a really good thing to point out for sure. How about others? Mentorship, sponsorship, help.

I will echo some of what Doctor Plate said in a sense that here at Adventist HealthCare, at least, I feel we are very fortunate to work in an organization that empowers physicians and that empowers women in leadership. I was very lucky to be working with a male mentor who really helped me and supported me to become the first Chief of Pathology and System Medical Director of Laboratories of Adventist HealthCare. I think, I'm the first female to, hold that position.

He believed in me at times where I did not even believe in myself and I thought this was going to be hard, but that support is very important. The organization also sponsors leadership training and those kind of seminars and conferences where you meet with other leaders and you bounce ideas back and forth, and you kind of gain that confidence in yourself. Because one of the challenges is that you always feel you're not ready. I need to get ready. It's just one way to postpone that until you get comfortable, or you don't believe in yourself, or you don't know the right people. One of the things that's very important that I learned throughout this journey is also to build relationships.

Because you can be excellent in what you do, and you can be the expert in your field, but if you're working in a silo, you can't get far in your leadership. You need to know people, you need to understand the people and the mission, and you need to build relationships and keep your focus on, obviously, patient safety first and the power of the team and the safety of the team so they believe in you. And you don't have to always have the right answers. You could be wrong, but when you build trust with your team, that's when they believe you and they follow you, even if you're not always successful or don't always have the right answers.

That's very true. Thinking through advocacy. When I have mentees, I, and they have impostor syndrome or they're thinking, you know, I can't do this. I'm like, you know, there were group of majority men who at some point decided they were gonna go to the moon.

And they did not have representation of people who were just walking around the moon. So they can get to the moon. You can get to the boardroom or beyond. You need to lean into that.

Doctor Judy Guardian.

That's that's really funny because, again, when I started, there really weren't any female mentors. I mean, they're just they just didn't exist. And my advocates were my parents who believed that I could do anything.

And and from the time I was a little girl, it's like, you can do anything. When I talked about medicine, they're like, you can do that. And and so that support was always there. And then as I went through the system, I had somebody in the military that was very much a mentor for me. But I I think as I went through the process of developing my career and then again going into leadership at the hospital, I tried to really reach out to other people and provide that service for them so they weren't also kind of swimming in the dark.

I think that's an important point because, you know, as a successful woman, you you get to a certain point and you really have to reach back. You have to reach back and try to not only, if somebody asks you, but sometimes you have to pull people forward. Now you don't wanna drown yourself in obligations. I understand that bit.

But you have to give back to be able to help people get further so that at the end of a ten year span, there aren't just still one or two women standing in a room full of men in medicine, which is very, very, very important. So, you know, one thing I have said as well about the emergency room where I used to work, you know, I would see women scurrying about and they were in their eighth month of pregnancy working. And they'd go into a room and run a code. The code would end.

They would come back to their desk, and they'd be on Amazon, you know, ordering Halloween costumes for their kid.

They'd go into another patient's room, and they would be teaching them about their heart care and so forth. And so you have a woman who is saving life, growing life, directing life at home, as well as educating patients. I've never seen a man do approach doing that many things during during a shift. You just it just does not exist because there's not that pressure.

You know, when you think through all of the span of your career and going forward, what are some targets any of you might have that you think, you know, this is a gap that we may need to fill. This is a thing that we may need to do. And I think about everything from compensation to pushing women into leadership. I did say push, but usually you have to kind of make a high suggestion.

So, you know, perhaps you should. But what do you think would be one of the more powerful things to do to kind of advance women in medicine or advance women in medicine and leadership?

I would say just encourage, you know, we have a lot of medical students that come through, or we did for a while. And, you know, it's always the same, especially in surgery. The male students, you know, when they're, when you ask them a question, they'll answer fully, but the women will answer like this. And so I said, no, you're a surgeon here.

You're a female surgeon in here right now and you speak up. So I think just allowing them that space to speak up, to show them that it's okay to just be a mentor, just like those who mentored you. I think that that's the most important thing and the easiest way to get everyone in. And again, not just, I wouldn't say just mentor towards the career, but towards leadership, like Doctor.

Beltaifa was saying as well. I think that's incredibly important because sometimes it's just not brought up. It's like, oh, you're gonna do your specialty and that's fine. But no, teach them.

These are the things you need to go to do and get into leadership. This is how, like you were saying, the the female imposter syndrome. This is how to get over that because you deserve to be here.

And if you're a leader, you deserve to be a leader. Although that female impostor syndrome is very I've had it before too. Like, these folks chose me as a leader. Yes.

You know? Scraping the bottom of Exactly.

Exactly. There's no one else available.

I mean, one piece of being a good leader is to identify other leaders and open the door for them. It starts there. And then leadership needs to be intentional and not just encouragement. So having the structure in place to help females become leaders, we are underrepresented in C suites, in research PIs, like research panels and things like that.

So that needs to be intentional to identify the individuals and help them and support them so they become the leaders that we want them to be. And another thing also that needs, to be looked into is the workplace structure. So when medicine was designed, it was not designed to support women as like whole people and having to do all the roles that Doctor. McNeil was mentioning, and that's impressive to have somebody multitask, especially an ED doctor.

That's very, very impressive. And policies around parental leave, flexible schedule, and equity in compensation and advancement make a huge difference in retention and growth.

Women in medicine is not just about fairness, or it's a smart strategy for building stronger physicians, stronger leaders, better care, and more sustainable systems. That's what healthcare needs today.

Can't disagree with that in any way, shape, or form. I'm going to click over a little bit and talk about, clinical medicine.

Still, it seems that studies and what we're taught and even journals is often based on that seventy kilogram man.

And, you know, not only is it that seventy kilogram man, but generally speaking in research and clinical research and beyond, it's generally a seventy kilogram white man. It's not it's not a a wide range of of type of even man. And so you think about that and you think about women's health, think about women's heart health, think about women's, you know, reproductive health and some of the assaults that are occurring on that, as well. You're talking to patients all the time, Doctor Plate, you're talking to patients, Doctor Gurdian, and you're looking through a scope at the results of either good care or good health or not so good health. Let's talk about clinical medicine just for a moment and what you see as far as opportunities for women to lean into better health for themselves.

Okay. So what what does that look like? And you think about all the patients you see and they're once again multitasking and taking care of this and that. Most women I know, especially if they got children, are uber focused on taking care of everybody else but themselves.

And so when I meet one who's late with their colonoscopy or late with their breast exam or late, you know, mammography and, the Pap smear and their general exam, I really get annoying. I get annoying. I'm like, you're a friend of mine. I want you to be here in five, ten, fifteen, fifty years.

I will drive you to your colonoscopy if you don't have anybody else.

I will be that that that designated driver if that's what's needed. So tell me tell me what you see and what you'd like to see change.

I I absolutely agree with you. We're terrible. We are just terrible.

I'm sitting here thinking overdue for the dentist, need to get my eyes checked.

So I will be your designated driver judge.

Have a list. I have a list. But, you know, you also go, but I need this and I need that and the other thing, and somehow other we still step back.

It's funny because the last four years I've been working with residents from Howard, and one of the things that I talk to them about is is how to balance their lives. They need to maintain a a part of their life that's just them, that you're you mommy, you're you wife, you're you doctor, but you have to protect the the you that's just you and do the things that that make you happy and and bring bring personal joy to your life.

And, and that is also a really important form of taking care of ourselves. If we don't, if we don't read, if we don't listen to music, if we don't go out, if we don't do those things that, that nourish us as a human being, there's not much point to the rest of it.

I can't disagree with that at Absolutely.

I mean, you can't take care of others if you don't care, take care of yourself.

It's just like being on an airplane and you need to put your mask on before you put it on a child or somebody else.

Very true. Exactly. Very true. I will be checking in on your dentist appointment, Doctor Kurian.

When I turned forty, it was the one thing that I made sure that my health that I did. I have a primary care doctor who actually examines me. I have a dentist that I go to at least once a year.

It, you know, it it is, you know, something that I I think it's important when I run across a woman who's doing those things, those things we all do. Making sure that the husband gets to the dentist and making sure the kids are getting their really, you know, their checkups. And, you know, it's a dry cleaning in. Is the dog been walked? Has the dog been fixed? You know, you're doing all of these things, all of these things.

Then then need your teeth cleaned.

Yeah. You need your teeth cleaned.

Well, and the important thing is what you just pointed out, what you just did. And and I have no doubt that you would take her to a co doctor Herndy to her one hundred it's also reaching out to women and going, I'm there for you. You know? I'm I don't have any kids, so I, you know, I may have more time. And so, you know, send if you need your colonoscopy, I'm happy to take you. So I and I think that that I I will.

I won't do your colonoscopy.

I'll get my own biopsy.

By the way. But I think that sense of, one of the important things is to get that sense of community and listening to podcasts on this. There are women in medicine groups, and it's incredibly important to reach out to your former residency, co residents, or even students that we still get together and talk to each other and not just about medicine, but you want to complain about your husband or your kids or your dog or, you know, whatever it is. And I think that's an incredibly important piece of taking care of yourself is to just get together with other women and just talk it out or have, you know, have a have a meal together and just laugh, you know, do whatever you need to do.

But I think that's incredibly important in taking care of yourself. Because as doctor Bautzhafa said, if you don't take care of yourself and I point that out to my patient. I'll have patients that come in and have a mammogram in two or three years. And, well, I've been taking care of my parents and my kids.

Well, if you can't take if you're gone, you're not here to take care of them. So same as women in medicine. And then as you said before, find your own support. You know, I have a housekeeper as well because I finally decided, you know, after a week of being on call and up all the time and operating and the weekend, I did not want to clean my house.

I wanted to do those things that I love to do. I wanted to go out. I wanted to read. So I hired a housekeeper and one might think for one person, yes.

I mean, does she come every day? No, but I found my own support in that way.

No, it's important too. And I want to be respectful of women out there who don't have that choice. But, for those of us who spent twelve years in higher education or more who are at the hospital potentially at seven o'clock in the morning and we don't walk out until after six o'clock at night, you know, there's a reason why you do that education. There's a reason why you work that hard.

And one of those things is to be able take care of yourself, your infrastructure, and your family. And so spending that money on something like that so you can actually take a nap, take a walk, talk to your friends, go to dinner. Those things are are very important. I'm gonna close with the following bit that I think kind of heads off of this very nicely, which is, you know, depression and suicide.

For female physicians, depression is two to three times higher in physicians who are women compared to the men who are physicians alone.

And as far as the general population is concerned, men have one point four times the amount of suicide completion as their male counterparts in the general population. But women have over two times the amount of suicide completion in medicine compared to their female cohorts out there. So, you know, it's funny because when I have mentees who are going into medicine or in medicine, I make sure I lean into asking them the question. You know, not only how are you and fine, but how are you?

Prove it. I had to prove it. Prove it to me. How how are you fine?

You know, because of the fact that our you know, women who are physicians have not only the means but the expertise to complete a suicide as unlike the general population if you think through it. And so it's very important to, well, you know, lean into that that wellness and making sure that burnout is kept in the the forefront of of how you're you're working.

Thoughts, folks?

This wasn't even a conversation back and No.

Think was when Lorna Breen committed suicide, I think that that was such a huge, motivator for all of us to kind of be be you know, and it came during COVID too where I think, you know, especially for for for you and myself at Shady Grove, we were really leaning into how our colleagues were doing.

I mean, I think that that was probably what I felt was the most important thing I could do as president at that point. And and when you when you look at people, when you ask them how they are, often see the answer written in their eyes.

Absolutely. You do. Yeah. Or their lack of their eye contact. I'm fine. They look down.

It's like But you gotta take the time to stop and look.

Yeah. This is very, very true as well. Alright. We're gonna close this out.

I'm gonna have each of you tell me something about your day or your week that makes it all worth it.

Alright?

It all worth it. I'm gonna start because I'm gonna give you time to actually think through this. I look in your eyes like what? This wasn't on the paper.

That's enough. I'm not fine.

What makes it worth it for me is the impact that I as a leader have an ability to have on the lives of patients and physicians in medicine. And it gives me the means to be able to take care of my family the way I want. And, know, it's just great. It's wonderful to have the kind of impact you can have in the role that I have at Adventist HealthCare. Cynthia Plate, it's all yours.

I really, know, we're all having our we a horrible week, horrible, horrible day. And when that one patient comes up to you and says, thank you, thank you for holding my hand before anesthesia took over. Thank you for getting me through my surgery. That makes it all worth it. Even if you're having the worst day in the world, that one patient just thanking you and crying and hugging you and and that that's what really makes it all worth it to me. I know.

It can turn a bad day around just like It's funny because HR may not want to hear this, but getting a patient hug, it's like the best thing, ever.

It really just is Doctor Beltaifa.

Well, in my specialty, unfortunately, I do not get to see patients.

If you're hugging patients, we have an issue.

I see pieces and parts of patients. And what makes my day is when we are able to identify what's wrong with this patient, because my specialty is based on understanding the pathologic basis of disease and finding the reasons for why the patient went through a procedure. And giving that answer with accuracy and safety is the key to, I would say ninety nine percent of the clinical decisions made in the physician's offices, my colleagues. So although I don't get to see the patients, I get to be part of their healthcare and be an important part of their healthcare because of the work that we do. And what inspires me at the end of the day is the women who lead with strength and heart, and especially those who create space for others to grow.

What I will say a final thing to women in the healthcare field and in leadership is try to imagine your life in hindsight. When you look back, what would have mattered most to you? Let that guide you. It helps you know what to prioritize at the moment.

And always remember, you may open the door for someone behind you just like someone else did for you. As women in medicine, one of the most powerful things we do is to create space for others.

Creating space. I agree a hundred percent. Judy Gurdian, take us home.

I am so fortunate that I love what I do. You do. I love what I do. I love practicing medicine. I love learning. I love teaching.

I I love my patients. I mean, some of my patients I've taken care of for over thirty years, and and I'm I just consider myself to be so incredibly fortunate to do something that I still love.

I mean, I have to say, knowing you personally, it's written over all over your face and being every time I see you how much you love what you do. It's really kind of, aspirational to to to want to to do this as long as you have it with as much passion as you have.

Alright, folks. There you have it. Women in, Medicine and Adventist HealthCare. We've had a great panel of of podcast joiners today and, looking forward to our next podcast led by me.

But I wanna thank all of my guests here today talking about this subject. Think I hope that if we can just kind of guide even one or two people to kind of join us in medicine, it's a great place to be despite all the raises what we talked about. As a woman in medicine, you can make more impact on human life than you would do probably in most other ways of making a living. So we we heavily encourage that.

Right? Right.

Thanks for having us, Doctor McNeil.

Absolutely. Charting with Doctor McNeil.